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Lee Batchelor
Guru
Posts: 661
Loc: Port Hope, Ont. Canada
(11/30/06 05:42 AM)
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24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Hi all!
I'm a little confused on this point. If I finish recording my Tyros II and vocals, acoustic guitar etc.. in 24-bit mode. My next step is to EXPORT the finished product to a suitable CD burning program. Where does this "dithering" come in. I'm using the Delta 1010 and Cuase SE. As I recall, the word "dither" doesn't even show up in the pdf manual when I do a search. Thanks........Lee
P.S. When I export the finished product, there may be 6 tracks or so and I have Cubase export it in Stereo Interlaced format.
Gear:Roland RD700-GX Pro Stage Piano, Tyros II, Yorkville NX55 Mains
Edited by Lee Batchelor (11/30/06 05:44 AM)
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Tacman7
Enthusiast
Posts: 352
Loc: SoCal
(11/30/06 06:45 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Several ways to go on that.
I take a 24bit recording into soundforge and save it as wma or mp3.
Or I could change it to a 16 bit wav there with different dithering choices.
But I prefer to export a mixdown from cubase at 16bits if I was making a wav.
Don't think I would want my recording software to do it.
But that would depend on the software, try your options and compare.
soundclick.com/tacman7
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sljr
Enthusiast
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
(11/30/06 08:58 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Here is a quick lesson: The standard resolution for CD playback is 16bit/44.1Hz. However, when recording, the higher the bit depth means a better representation of the audio. So, if you record at 24 or 32 bit you have to export the mix down to 16 bit for playback on CD. Now, what happens to the extra bits when exporting to 16 bit? The extra bits, without dither, are discarded thus lowering the quality of audio representation. That's where dithering comes in. When exporting 24 bits down to 16 bits, instead of just throwing the extra bits away, dithering (in a way) prevents degrading of the audio representation (although 24 bits are being shorten to 16 bits). During mastering in Cubase, the Dither plugin should be the last plugin on the output channel before export.
Hope this helps.
ES6, P70, mLAN16e, Studio 4
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frankE
Guru
Posts: 4804
Loc: Victoria, Canada
(11/30/06 09:21 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Okay, Lee, here's where one of the disadvantages of having your version of Cubase rather than C4 or SX comes...you have a dithering plugin, but you don't have the superior plugin that is in the top end versions of Cubase. Anyway, here's some info:
a) Generally you should leave everything in 24 bit until you have mixed a song down to 2 tracks, have mastered it in Cubase, and are ready to export a 16 bit stereo file for CD burning. Do not dither 24 bit tracks to 16 bit until the very last; work in 24 bit or 32 bit floating point until the last possible moment
b) The dithering plugin goes in slots 7 or 8 in your Stereo master bus Inserts, not in 1-6.
c) SX and C4 owners should use the Apogee UV-22HR plugin, but you only have the UV-22, so use that, and start with the default settings.
d) Set your left and right locators correctly at the beginning and end of the 24 bit stereo file you wish to export, and in the Export dialogue, choose .wav, 16 bit, stereo interleaved.
Hope this, along with the info the others have supplied will help. Not sure why dithering etc. is not covered in your manual; it is in the SX and C4 manuals....................frank
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Lee Batchelor
Guru
Posts: 661
Loc: Port Hope, Ont. Canada
(11/30/06 10:02 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Many thanks guys! Your info was most helpful. Think I'll re-visit the manual and see if I missed something on this most important step! As Frank said, dithering must be at least mentioned in the manual and I must try to locate the plugin for it.
Regards..........Lee
Gear:Roland RD700-GX Pro Stage Piano, Tyros II, Yorkville NX55 Mains
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Brčte
Guru
Posts: 2103
Loc: The Rockies, USA
(11/30/06 05:08 PM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
WOW, now i finally get dithering.
Then it is used as an INSERT effect, last in the chain, on the output bus?
Brčte
Rad Nutcracker
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frankE
Guru
Posts: 4804
Loc: Victoria, Canada
(11/30/06 09:46 PM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
The dithering plugin goes in Insert slots 7 or 8 of your Stereo ('master') Output bus, not in 1-6." So either slot 7 OR 8 can be used. Note: these slots are POST FADER.
Dithering is explained in detail on page 12 of the "Plug-in Reference" manual (.pdf file) that is included on your C4 DVD. It also explains when to use dithering and how to use it. Page 55 of the same manual covers the UV22-HR plugin. For SX users, see page 11-255 of the main "Operations" manual. Manuals can be useful things sometimes!  ........frank
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Brčte
Guru
Posts: 2103
Loc: The Rockies, USA
(12/01/06 12:30 PM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Oh I KNOW!
Curling up in front of a warm fireplace with my girl and a hot owner's manual. Now THAT is the life. 
Brčte
Rad Nutcracker
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frankE
Guru
Posts: 4804
Loc: Victoria, Canada
(12/05/06 08:41 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
For more information on dithering click here...........frank
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Lee Batchelor
Guru
Posts: 661
Loc: Port Hope, Ont. Canada
(12/06/06 05:19 AM)
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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dithering
Thanks for posting the link to that article Frank. I didn't realize dithering was that complex! Am I correct in my assumption that dithering from 24 to 16 bit, preserves original audio accuracy WITHOUT the introduction of distortion through mathematical error in the digital signal? A good dithering plugin will solve this problem?
I looked in my Cubase SE help file again and there is no mention of the word DITHER. All they say is that you should record at the highest rate your audio card supports (24 bit in the case of my Delta 1010) and that if you're making an audio CD you should mix down to 16 bit since audio CDs are at this resolution. Perhaps when I export the resultant wave file to Nero, Cubase SE dithers it in background down to 16 bit?
Thanks......Lee
Gear:Roland RD700-GX Pro Stage Piano, Tyros II, Yorkville NX55 Mains
Edited by Lee Batchelor (12/06/06 05:26 AM)
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